I find myself traveling into West Virginia quite often. I live in Pennsylvania so I have their License to Carry Firearms. In other states, the permit may be referred to as a Concealed Carry Permit or may go by another name. My permit is good in West Virginia thanks to five-term Attorney General Darrell McGraw. Pennsylvania enjoys reciprocity with several states where PA honors the out-of-state permits and the other states honor PA permits. I also travel to Ohio to visit relatives or end up crossing the state line for a few minutes while driving to another destination.
My problem is that Ohio does not honor my PA permit. However, they do honor a Utah non-resident permit. Getting the Utah non-resident permit opens up more states where I can legally carry my firearm. A non-resident permit to carry a concealed firearm is a permit issued by a state to residents of another state who do possess a valid concealed carry permit in their own state. Reciprocity agreements between states in conjunction with possessing a non-resident concealed carry permit opens up more states to legally carry in. You have the ones your state’s permit covers and can also legally carry in the states your non-resident permit covers.
The whole deal about the non-existent reciprocity between PA and Ohio is over the issue of training. Ohio has a training requirement while PA does not. Utah does have a training requirement even for its non-resident permits, so Ohio honors them. It is a workaround until a day when infringement hopefully ceases altogether. I am not opposed to keeping felons and the mentally incompetent from possessing or carrying firearms. I do not fall under either of those categories as a competent law-abiding citizen so the need to go through the trouble to get even another permit is a little frustrating. However, since I am a law-abiding citizen, I will work within the system to be able to legally carry my concealed handgun in Ohio. Many readers can enjoy the freedom to legally carry in other states by getting a Utah non-resident permit.
In the first paragraph, there was mention of thanking West Virginia Attorney General Darrell McGraw. I say that because a story was told to me that is significant for Second Amendment advocates. AG McGraw is a pro Second Amendment politician. West Virginia does have a training requirement for permits. Even though Pennsylvania does not, AG McGraw is said to have desired reciprocity between the two states. It is said that he saw in the West Virginia law that the only entity that could penalize him for bringing about reciprocity with PA was the attorney general. Since he is the attorney general, Pennsylvania and West Virginia residents no longer have to worry about crossing each other’s state lines on the highways and back roads and becoming instant felons.
One can be driving out a country road in Pennsylvania or West Virginia and suddenly cross a poorly marked state line. It is not like the landscape suddenly changes color and bells start ringing to warn that an invisible boundary line was just crossed. If there was no reciprocity, it makes a resident on either side who was legally carrying a second ago in his own state an instant felon. Many residents close to the state lines work, have family, go hunting and fishing and do all kinds of things across the state lines. Reciprocity takes away the worry of having to disarm or accidentally crossing a state line while carrying.
States Where a Utah Non-Resident Permit is Honored
Utah has a formal reciprocity agreement (by legal statute) with:
Alabama North Carolina
Alaska North Dakota
Colorado Ohio
Florida South Dakota
Georgia Texas
Louisiana Virginia
Mississippi Washington (State)
New Hampshire West Virginia
States that honor Utah’s firearm permit:
Arizona Minnesota
Arkansas Missouri
Delaware Montana
Idaho Nebraska
Indiana Oklahoma
Iowa Pennsylvania
Kentucky Tennessee
Michigan Vermont
Wisconsin Wyoming
Are any of the states listed a place where you would like to be able to legally carry concealed? Then that is why it may be a good idea to get a Utah non-resident gun permit. Understand, there is no need to be a resident of Utah to get this permit. One is not becoming a citizen of Utah by applying to receive a non-resident concealed carry permit from them.
Illinois and the District of Columbia have no permit process. Their citizens are out of luck no matter what the Second Amendment says. Remember that some states do not disallow carrying concealed because they have no laws for or against it. For example: In Alaska, any person who can legally own a firearm is allowed to carry it concealed. It does not matter if one is a resident or non-resident of the state. That is more along the lines of how it should be. However, Alaska does issue permits to its residents who apply to receive them so they can be able to enjoy reciprocity carry in other states that require a person to possess a valid concealed firearm’s permit from their home state. Vermont, on the other hand, allows concealed carry like Alaska does but has no permit available. Therefore, residents of Vermont are out of luck obtaining non-resident permits that require a person to possess a valid permit in their own state.
The Urgency of Paying Attention to Legal Details Concerning Concealed Carry Permits
Several states are opened up to me to legally carry a concealed firearm by having a Utah non-resident permit. It is worth it just to be able to carry in Ohio. The prudent person who has chosen to carry concealed will pay close attention in the training class required to get this non-resident permit. There are plenty of legal caveats that can cause a person to wind up in jail if they are not careful.
I took the training class offered by Pennsylvania State Constable John Vith. His office is close to Pittsburgh, PA. John is an NRA instructor and is certified by the state of Utah as a concealed firearms instructor. He travels extensively, teaching hundreds of people every year the official training requirements issued by the state of Utah to get a non-resident concealed firearm permit. John pointed out the tiniest of details that those who carry a concealed firearm need to know. The class takes up a whole day. There is no shooting qualification test. It is all classroom instruction. However, the class teaches how to safely handle firearms as the Utah curriculum requires safe weapons manipulations demonstrations to be carried out. John does offer live fire training to groups that request it. Groups may desire the additional training to meet their own needs or the requirements of states offering permits that demand live fire training.
One thing that immediately stands out is that whatever state a person is in, that firearm’s permit becomes that state’s permit. What that means is that the concealed carry permit holder who can legally carry in another state is immediately under the legal statutes concerning firearms of the state they are in as soon as they cross the state line. If it is okay to carry in a place of worship or a place that serves alcohol in your home state, it may not be in the state you are visiting. If it is not required to notify a law enforcement officer in your state that you are carrying or have a permit to carry, it may be in the state you are visiting. You have to abide by the laws in the state you are in where your home state or additional non-resident permit is honored.
Another interesting caveat is that some states have a duty to inform law enforcement if one is carrying a concealed firearm. That is an easy one to remember and comply with. However, there are some states that have a duty to inform law enforcement even when a person is not carrying. Just having a permit makes it a requirement to inform. It literally means if a permit holder has any interaction whatsoever with a law enforcement officer, they must notify the officer that they have a permit even if they are not carrying at the time.
John gave the example that one could be at the beach in his swimming trunks and approach an officer of the law to ask directions. The permit holder would have to say something such as, “Hello officer, I would like to ask you directions to the nearest mall but I must inform you by law that I have a concealed firearms permit.” It may sound silly, but it is the law. These are the things you learn in class that will keep you out of trouble when carrying in other states.
Ohio has an interesting law. They consider a loaded magazine a firearm. The federal law does not. Probably many PA residents have traveled through Ohio to get to certain parts of West Virginia where their PA permits are honored. That is interstate travel. The typical move is to follow the federal rule of unloading a gun and locking the gun and the ammunition in separate containers when traveling through a state. Most will pop the magazine out of a pistol and clear the chamber. They will lock up the pistol in one container and the ammo in another.
It does not really matter what the container is made out of. It may be made of a padded fabric material, plastic or metal. The point is to lock the gun up separately from the ammo. However, most do not actually empty the magazine of the ammunition. In Ohio that makes them a felon if a traveler who stowed their guns in such a manner stops for anything other than fuel, a restroom break or food. The federal Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) covers a person traveling through a state (interstate travel). However, stopping in the state to stay at a hotel or motel overnight, to visit a friend or relative, or to just view a scenic landmark is an interruption in the forward progress of traveling through the state. The traveler has technically now became an intrastate traveler.
This drastically changes the rules since the federal law only protects stops to get gas, eat or pee. A person could just be traveling with loaded magazines and no actual firearms of any kind and be arrested in Ohio under the state law when the federal protection ends because of the halt in the forward progress through the state. Most think they are okay if they keep on moving and only stop for the covered reasons. However, what happens if there is an accident or mechanical breakdown? Those people would have their forward progress halted and could be arrested. Having a non-resident permit honored by Ohio takes care of the problem altogether.
Another big thing concealed carry permit holders worry about is having their concealed firearm being seen. Some states have laws against it. In other states, it does not matter. I did not know until I took the class that Florida has a “printing” law. No, it is not about putting ink on paper. It is about the outline of a holster or gun being seen through clothing. It is an offense in Florida that can get a person cited.
The Utah Non-Resident Training Class
John Vith is the best teacher of concealed carry and firearm subject matter I have seen in quite some time. He takes what could be a very long and boring day and makes it interesting. His presentation follows logical thinking. As students would raise their hands to ask a question, John’s usual response was that the answer was coming up next. John has trained everyone from average folks in big classrooms to judges in their living rooms.
He mentioned how the training requirement for the Utah non-resident permit has evolved over time. There used to be a required gun cleaning segment. Utah sets the rules for the curriculum. John said that segment of the class sometimes was more like a “gunsmithing” session, depending on the skills of the students in attendance. On occasion, there would be the novice student who had parts flying as he attempted to field strip his weapon for cleaning. It is good that Utah saw the segment as being unnecessary and abandoned it. The current class curriculum is quite good. It used to only be six pages long. Now it is 51 pages of good instruction. Utah continually reviews the curriculum to make improvements. It answers all those nagging questions students naturally have. I am quite inquisitive and walked away at the end of the day not having any question unanswered.
I really enjoyed the time in class where we went over the pitfalls of state and federal laws that could get a concealed carry permit holder in trouble. Though I have already mentioned some, another thing I learned in class was about guns on school property. Many states allow a permit holder to drive onto school property to drop off their kids or pick them up. The permit holder must remain in the vehicle. The federal law declares that the person with the permit must have a permit issued by the state where the school is at. How is this a problem? Well, let us use an example.
If a PA permit holder is visiting his sister in Virginia, his PA permit is honored there. If that permit holder would drive his sister’s kids to school while carrying his firearm, he is breaking the law because his permit was not issued by the state of Virginia where the school is at. It is simply a technicality, but one that could land a person with no bad intent in jail. With ignorance of the law not being an excuse that will work in any court, it is absolutely critical that every concealed carry permit holder understand the need to fully research the laws about firearms for his own state as well as any state where he will legally carry. Plus, there is a need to know the federal laws and how they differ from state laws.
The Process of Getting a Utah Non-Resident Concealed Firearm Permit
Though tedious, the process is straightforward. The big thing to avoid is paperwork mistakes. John goes over the tiniest of details that, in his experience, has caused permit requests to be denied, delayed or sent back for correction. Overall, only a fraction of permits have an issue. However, one does want to avoid being in that group. Little things are important, such as using “Bro” for brown eyes and brown hair instead of the abbreviation “Brn.” John meticulously leads every student through every line of the official forms that must be sent in to get a permit. He even advises on how to organize the paperwork in the envelope.
The reason is that he knows the difficulty the permit processors go through on a daily basis. Utah has six workers processing 125,000 permits every year. With a five day work week and no holidays or vacations, that would have each worker processing about 80 permits per day. They do not have time to interpret what is being abbreviated, and they do not have time to figure out illegible handwriting. This is why John emphasizes having all your ducks in a row when you send in your permit application package.
The contents of the permit application package includes the single sheet application form, a fingerprint card (John takes care of fingerprinting all students during the class), one passport photo, a photocopy of the applicant’s driver’s license, a photocopy of the applicant’s resident concealed carry permit and a check, money order or credit card information for $51.00 to cover fees. The application fees are separate from the cost to take the class. Sounds easy enough, but John takes students step by step through every little thing that can go wrong during the application process. Those who complete the class have up to a year to actually send in their paperwork to apply for the permit.
One thing that happens concerns the passport photo. The official instructions indicate to write the name of the person on the back of the photo. Some inks bleed through when the photo is processed. If it happens, there will be a delay in processing the application while a request is sent for a new photo. Simply putting the information on a sticker affixed to the photo eliminates the problem. To avoid delays, John advises putting your name, Social Security number and date of birth on the back of the photo. Put it in a small envelope, paper clipping it to the application since items can be accidentally separated during processing. The workers are very busy. This level of thoroughness shows an instructor who really cares. Students get their money’s worth.
If the student has a valid home state concealed carry permit and meets Utah’s additional requirements of not being convicted of crimes of moral turpitude (sex crimes, embezzlement, tax evasion, etc.), there should not be an issue in obtaining a non-resident permit from the state. Some states are more lenient when it comes to certain crimes while others are more strict. Utah actually checks NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) every 24 hours looking for any data on those who have permits. They look for convictions on crimes to see if it is necessary to suspend a permit. However, simply being arrested on domestic violence charges can get a permit suspended.
Renewing the permit is easy and inexpensive. The permits are good for five years. The renewal fee for another five year permit is only $15.00, which is less than one-third of the initial application fee ($51.00). Apply 90 days in advance so the existing permit does not expire before the new one is received. The number of states covered and low cost of renewal make the Utah non-resident permit a great value. Florida has a non-resident permit that is good for seven years and, according to the states official list of fees for firearms permits, they charge $112.00 (some sites say $117.00) in fees plus the cost of the training requirement for a permit. Renewals are $102.00 (some sites say $107.00). Reciprocity agreements do change on a regular basis so having both permits may be beneficial. The Utah permit is a better bargain. If money is not a concern, get both of them.
What Does The Utah Non-Resident Permit Training Class Cost?
John tries to schedule classes to train enough students to cover his traveling and other costs. However, he is often brought in as an instructor for another group that is sponsoring a class. The group may be a non-profit group that adds a small fee to cover their additional expenses. I attended John’s class sponsored by the Veterans and Patriots United group. It was held at a very nice hotel in the Pittsburgh area. The additional fees went to pay for the rental of the large meeting room we were in as well as the amenities offered by the hotel while we were there. John could just as easily teach a group in someone’s living room.
The permit application fee is $51.00 with renewal fees every five years at $15.00. There is no need to retake the training class. It is a one time necessity. The average cost of the training class is around $90.00 per person depending on group size and if there is a sponsoring group. Sponsoring groups offset their costs and may use the course as a small fund-raising opportunity. John will teach smaller groups and individuals, but it naturally is going to cost more because John’s hotel stay and traveling expenses need to be covered. It is easier to spread out those costs with larger groups.
John will travel to accommodate groups and individuals who want to take the class. He is not the only instructor in the US. There is an extensive list of certified instructors around the country in the states where the Utah non-resident permit can be obtained. However, I can personally attest to the quality of this instructor’s teaching. He is very thorough, empowering students with knowledge that gives confidence to carry in other states under a valid non-resident permit.
A businessman I know asked John to present the class privately. He was willing to cover all of the expenses himself. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I say this because I have come to know several readers of my articles who would appreciate being able to take a class privately. There are quite a few of means who would like to obtain a non-resident permit yet would like to take the class privately. Some business owners may like to offer the class to their employees.
I talked with John about this. He says that he prefers teaching large classes so that his traveling and other expenses can be spread out fairly among the group. He did say though that he will teach smaller groups and individuals on request. However, since flight, hotels, meals, rental cars, distance traveled and other expenses are exorbitant in this economy, it is more economical for an interested party to put together a group of people rather than try to cover the costs alone. John typically teaches in about ten states including the D.C. Area. D.C residents participate in classes offered nearby in Arlington, Falls Church and Crystal City, Virginia.
If you want to have John Vith teach your group, taking everyone through every step of the Utah non-resident permit process, visit www.utahbcicertifiedinstructor.com. You can use the web form at the site for emailing him any questions. Gun clubs, community organizations, shooting sports clubs, churches and other groups are a great place to recruit more people in order to make a class in your area more economical. Pro-carry business owners could offer the class to employees.
Group size is relevant depending on how far he has to travel. For classes not too far from the Pittsburgh area, groups of eight or ten are ideal. John indicated that traveling to other states that typically involve an overnight stay should have about 18-20 students enrolled to take the course. Also, if you are of a mind to cover the costs of private instruction, and you prefer John to be your instructor rather than another locally available instructor, please feel free to contact him.
Cody S. Alderson is a long-time regular contributor to The United States Concealed Carry Association. He is a private consultant and author based in southwestern Pennsylvania. Cody invites you to visit his website at www.aldersonarts.com or his Facebook Page to comment on this article.
